Deep Throat

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
Right, exactly.
However, the fact that most Marilyn fans are WOMEN, means that this is not some sort of sexist male problem, that's all.
Matt Pacini
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you are leaving out a couple of points.

Marilyn is dead, and guys tend to not go ga ga over dead women. It doesn't help the old fantasy stream of consciousness.

In general, all of humanity loves to fawn over someone who is no longer direct competition, being dead fits that criteria.

In this country, the economic powers only value instant ratings over all else, it's easier to "sell" recycled Marilyn anything versus educating about others from that time period.

So that's what we get. Whether it's subliminal male intent to keep women down, or just greed, it's really not good.

By the way, that is what is wrong with this country, be it incessant stock market news about the value of"shares", or ratings only driven programming, Our Media likes it "Hot", we don't receive well balanced truth in this country, only what is "Hot".



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Alex

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
Right, exactly.
However, the fact that most Marilyn fans are WOMEN, means that this is not some sort of sexist male problem, that's all.
Matt Pacini
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you are leaving out a couple of points.

Marilyn is dead, and guys tend to not go ga ga over dead women. It doesn't help the old fantasy stream of consciousness.

In general, all of humanity loves to fawn over someone who is no longer direct competition, being dead fits that criteria.

In this country, the economic powers only value instant ratings over all else, it's easier to "sell" recycled Marilyn anything versus educating about others from that time period.

So that's what we get. Whether it's subliminal male intent to keep women down, or just greed, it's really not good.

By the way, that is what is wrong with this country, be it incessant stock market news about the value of"shares", or ratings only driven programming, Our Media likes it "Hot", we don't receive well balanced truth in this country, only what is "Hot".


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Alex

[crimsonson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
Right, exactly.
However, the fact that most Marilyn fans are WOMEN, means that this is not some sort of sexist male problem, that's all.


Matt Pacini

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt, I have to disagree with this one.
I think you have made it a little to simplistic.
I think Alex is correct that she is a very famous American Icon internationaly. She is one of the few celebrities that have transcended her period of existance. She is the cause countless movies, books, countless parodies, impersinators and blonde wigs & white dresses sold during Holloween. However, notice that I use celebrity not actress. Since the success of the MM image is not artistry but her sexual appeal she exentuates with a sincere touch of vulnerability, boredering on child like vulnerablity- a school girl. And to females it might be that sexuality - a trait that we in a patriachal society deemed as true female power, find appealing. However, I think you will agree that it is a limited power at best and an illusion at worst. And this is sexist, it limits the success of woman because we create a goal and promises of rewards for an individual. But upon further examination it furthers nobody except the individual. It does not contribute to our society. It reflects a shallow image - two dimensional.

But the artisitic actress/actor becomes a college course. They become a gate to the examination of human emotion, psychology and social expectations, in short it furthers us scientificly and artisticly. Its a human contribution. But for a sexual celebrity it only further proves the obvious(of any cultures sexual appetite) and there is no RISK. And that situation is dangerous. A woman's goal in our society becomes short sighted. Those who have the talent, the guts to risk and skill to offer to further our culture are repressed and forgotten. I am not belittling the importance of MM. But would anybody wants us to let our sons and daughters to study the importance of MM in college or a Sylvia Platt? Her sexuality is important but it does cast a large unecessary shadow, over real achievements that we ALL can enjoy. Not just the celebrated individual.

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[This message has been edited by crimsonson (edited October 18, 2001).]

[Matt Pacini]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crimsonson:
..." However, I think you will agree that it is a limited power at best and an illusion at worst. And this is sexist, it limits the success of woman because we create a goal and promises of rewards for an individual..."

(Matt Pacini resonds):
Why does this always go only one way?
Why are women never accused of sexism for doing the same thing, tenfold?
I don't think this is any more sexist, than is the fact that women idolize men with money.

Men view women as sex symbols.
Women view men as success symbols.

Tell me if THIS is sexist:

1. When you go on a first date. who pays?

2. Who do women find more attractive, Mel Gibson, or Stephen Hawking?

3. All things being equal, given the cnoice, will most woman pick the man with more money, or less?

4. Women want to be in the military, as long as they don't have to jump in foxholes and get their asses shot at. (They only argue that they should be equally represented as fighter pilots, etc., NOT grunts).

5. Women want equal representation as lawyers, CEO's etc., but they have no problem with the fact that all the crappy jobs that MUST be done, are ALL done by men: garbage pickup, bricklayers, steelworkers, the guy who pumps the shit out of your septic tank, etc.


So PLEEEEASSSSE, stop blaming men for being sexist. Women are FAR more sexist than men are.
The feminist movement has been about women getting all the advantages that men have, with none of the downfalls, like having to die in war, dig ditches (I've done this stuff too!), etc.
So I just ignore the bitching now, because what started as a noble cause, is now totally turned into a fascist movement.

Matt Pacini

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[eddie]

do any of these discussions actually improve your filmmaking?

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[chas_ucla]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddie:
do any of these discussions actually improve your filmmaking?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course...didn't you hear...Alex is finally going to make a new Super-8 film. The topic: a guy who spends 3/4 of his day sitting at the computer, posting on message boards.

The Super-8 Community anxiously awaits the results of what should be a masterpiece.

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[Alex]

Chas, You are a fool.

You know nothing about me.

But you make slanderous and untruthful statements.

I don't need to justify my life to you.

What I got done in the last 4 days on different video jobs is more than you have probably done in your life.

You also are a selfish ingrate.

The information I provide may not be for you, but it may be for others.

How inconcievebly misguided and selfish of you to take any info I have provided and than respond to me in this manner afterwards.

Cut the slander.

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Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 19, 2001).]

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddie:
do any of these discussions actually improve your filmmaking?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well....duhhhhh.

The most important part of filmmaking is not to rehash crap that is already been done to death.

Typical Marilyn fare falls into that category.

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Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 19, 2001).]

[56films]

alex,
construction not criticism
help not heat

please calm down.



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who let the pigs out? who? who?

[chas_ucla]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex:
What I got done in the last 4 days on different video jobs is more than you have probably done in your life.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We're talking about Super-8, baby-boy...did I mention anything about video?

Methinks he doth pout too much.

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